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HomeMy WebLinkAbout07-08-2025 - HEX Decision - Appendix A -- Hobbs 4.8 Appendix A -- Hobbs 4 (Completed 07/08/25) Transcript by Rev.com Page 1 of 9 Appendix A April 8, 2025, Hearing Transcript Hobbs Appeal File No. – 25-000005 Note: This is a computer-generated transcript provided for informational purposes only. The reader should not take this document as 100% accurate or take offense at errors created by the limitations of the programming in transcribing speech. A recording of the hearing is available from the City should anyone need an accurate rendition of the hearing testimony. Examiner Olbrechts: (00:00): Alright, for the record, it's April 8th, 2025, 10:30 AM I'm Phil Res Hearing Examiner for the City of Renton holding another code enforcement appeal on a notice of violation. This is file 25 dash 0 0 0 0 5. Ms. Hobbs is appealing a notice of violation for an outdoor storage violation. It obvious the hearing format will be the same as all our other appeal hearings, which is the burden of proof is on the city. So the city code enforcement officer has to prove their case basically and explain why they believe a violation has occurred. That would be composed of witness testimony as well as documents they want to put in the record. And all the witness testimony will be subject to your questioning. You can cross examine any witnesses you want. Mr. Petzel, are you the one that's the lead on this one? Alright. Okay. Mr. Petzel put together a packet of exhibits per your case, and I'm going to share screen on that at this point. Let's see if I can find the correct one. I know this is going to look a little small on your phone screen probably, but hopefully you received a copy of this in the mail. Ms. Hobbs, (01:08): You saw that. Okay, so we got a total of five exhibits there in the narrative, the warning of just a violation that we sent you in the notice of violation, the appeal notice. Do you have any objection to entry these documents in the record? Ms. Hobbs: (01:22): I'm sorry, I didn't understand that last thing. I do have all of that stuff sitting in front of me. Examiner Olbrechts: (01:28): Okay. Yeah, just by objection, it would be, you don't find one of the documents relevant to this has nothing to do with your case or some documents inauthentic. There's a picture, it says it's your house and it's not your house, Speaker 3 (01:40): That kind of thing. No. No. Examiner Olbrechts: (01:41): Okay. I'll go ahead and admit one through five. Yeah, usually people don't have a problem with that. That's just kind of a technical thing. And I will say by state law, I'm not allowed to consider any evidence except what's put here today. I haven't talked to Mr. Petzold or anybody about your case. Everything I Appendix A -- Hobbs 4 (Completed 07/08/25) Transcript by Rev.com Page 2 of 9 know is from those five exhibits that you received in the mail. I don't know anything else about this. So you know exactly what's going to be considered for the decision then. So Mr. Petzold Ms. Hobbs: (02:06): I some information? Yes. Examiner Olbrechts: (02:07): Yeah. Mr. Petzel, let me swear in. Just raise your right hand and you swear affirm to tell the truth, nothing but the truth in this proceeding. I Mr. Petzold: (02:13): Do. Examiner Olbrechts: (02:13): Okay, great. Go ahead. Okay, Mr. Petzold: (02:15): So first of all, the violation is RMC four dash five dash one 30 sections 3 0 8 3 and 3 0 8 8. So first of all, I was on January 6th, I was inspecting another property through our written response, CCL fix for the same violation of a membrane structure, two houses down. I noticed Ms. Hobbs house had the same structure basically on her property. So on that day, I sent out a warning of violation on January 28th. Site Reinspection noted the same structure was still there, hadn't had a response from Ms. Hobbs. So I sent out a second warning. That was January 28th. On January 31st, Ms. Hobbs called to discuss options. I told her basically what the violation was and everything, and told her that if she wanted to appeal, we could send a notice of violation with a fine so that she could appeal the violation. She wanted to think about it. So then on February 5th, spoke with her and she decided that she wanted to appeal it. So I sent her the notice violation with a fine. I think it was just a hundred dollars fine. And then here we are. Examiner Olbrechts: (03:28): Okay. That's basically fine. It is Mr. Petzold: (03:30): Pretty simple. Examiner Olbrechts: (03:30): Yeah. Before we get to Ms. Hobbs questions, I had a couple quick ones for you. You Mr. Petzold: (03:34): Bet. Speaker 3 (03:35): So Examiner Olbrechts: (03:35): Appendix A -- Hobbs 4 (Completed 07/08/25) Transcript by Rev.com Page 3 of 9 This is a violation because it qualifies as a membrane structure. And I was looking for the definitions. I mean, I found some definitions in the international building code. Is that the ones that apply here or would it be the residential code? Yes. Okay. So there's three types of membrane structures, apparently, one that's air supported, one that's on cable, and I don't know, I can't remember the other one, but could you kind of explain how it meets one of those definitions? Mr. Petzold: (04:03): I don't know if I have that. The definition I got, memory structures are considered outdoor storage and civic locations. It says membrane structure shall be immediately removed. Repaired. So I don't know if it gives a true, the true definition. It mentions about tarps and makeshift covers are prohibited. So it doesn't really give a true definition of exactly what a membrane structure is. Examiner Olbrechts: (04:28): Yeah, like I said, the IVC has three definitions, three different types or two or three. Anyway. But this is just, so looking at the photograph, it looks like, is it cloth basically kind of a cloth roof? Mr. Petzold: (04:44): It's a metal pole with a 10 roof, Examiner Olbrechts: (04:48): Metal roof. Mr. Petzold: (04:49): Aluminum roof. Aluminum roof. Examiner Olbrechts: (04:50): Oh, it's aluminum then. Mr. Petzold: (04:52): So they're like carports. Examiner Olbrechts: (04:53): Oh, I see. So these are aluminum panels? Mr. Petzold: (04:56): Yeah. Examiner Olbrechts: (04:56): Okay. Alright. Okay. Yeah. And Ms. Hobbs, you'll have a chance. Just a minute. Alright, so that's the way, how did you know it was a membrane structure? How did you conclude? It was a membrane structure? Mr. Petzold: (05:10): I guess, I mean, from other cases that we looked at through the city, that's what we've been calling membrane structures. Appendix A -- Hobbs 4 (Completed 07/08/25) Transcript by Rev.com Page 4 of 9 Examiner Olbrechts: (05:17): Okay. Okay. Yeah, Mr. Petzold: (05:19): I could be wrong. Yes. Examiner Olbrechts: (05:20): And has the city before found, because obviously this is meant to be a carport, I suppose, found carports composed of memory structures. They found that to be outdoor storage before. Mr. Petzold: (05:31): That's what they've been considered. Examiner Olbrechts: (05:33): Okay. Alright. Gotcha. Okay. All right, Ms. Hobbs, go ahead. You can ask any of your questions now. Ms. Hobbs: (05:39): Well, I don't really have questions. I just have stick up for myself. Examiner Olbrechts: (05:43): Okay. Well that's perfectly fine. Let me, Mr. Hold on a second. If you have any questions. Hold on. Hold on just a minute. Mr. Petzel, are there any other witnesses you wanted to present on behalf of the city? Okay. All right, now it's your turn. Ms. Hobbs, let me swear you in. Just raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, nothing about the truth in this proceeding? Ms. Hobbs: (06:01): Yes. Examiner Olbrechts: (06:02): Okay, great. Go ahead. Ms. Hobbs: (06:02): I swear. Okay, judge, for one thing, it is a car cover and it's a very nice expensive car cover. And when I went to put, when I bought my house 20 years ago, I have a classic car, 68 Barracuda family car rebuild. And they're a membrane is a pretty weird word. And storage is, I mean, it's protecting the car, a classic car. And when I did put it on, I just want you to know that I did research to find if I needed a permit. At that time, I was opening up my own business, which was Diamond Tattoo that was downtown. And I was well aware of finding or figuring out what needs to be permits or what. And I had planned it on doing everything the right way and I couldn't find anything. I guess maybe member brain and storage, but I couldn't find this when I did do it. (07:30): And it was over at least 20 years ago. And I wish that I would've, I talked to a couple of people from Renton that were coming to sign off on permits and such at the business that I was opening. And they didn't think it was going to be a problem. For one thing, it's not ugly, it's not an eyesore. It was Appendix A -- Hobbs 4 (Completed 07/08/25) Transcript by Rev.com Page 5 of 9 expensive and it's nice and I keep it clean. And like I said, there's a 68 classic Barracuda parked underneath it. But another thing is, I mean, besides trying to find out if I needed a permit or find out if it was okay to put that there, and talking to a couple people from Renton about placing it there, I've planted roses that go up. You know what I mean? It is really a part of my home. And it's not storage, it doesn't have tarps. I keep it clean and obviously I'm upset that because two houses down, somebody decided to do it the absolute wrong way. And oh, the measurements too. I remember something about when I was looking into it, something about the five foot property line and mine is eight. So I did check on that when I played it and stuff. And I do understand why Eric was attention was called to the carport. That is two houses down that was just put in because it wasn't done properly. And if I was the neighbor of him, I probably would've been upset too. But I don't have anything to do with it. I'm good a nd honest and try to be the best person I can be. And I looked into it first and somehow I got, somehow, this is a bummer. (10:09): I do have a letter from my neighbor that wrote me or that wrote a letter for you guys saying that there are no concerns about it. Yeah. I don't know what else to say. Examiner Olbrechts: (10:31): So you said you built it, did you build it 20 years ago? Is that right? Ms. Hobbs: (10:34): No, I didn't build it. It's a purchased knife one. Examiner Olbrechts: (10:38): Yeah. Ms. Hobbs: (10:38): You know what I mean? Examiner Olbrechts: (10:40): When did you put it in? I'm just trying to find out when. So Ms. Hobbs: (10:43): 20 years ago. Examiner Olbrechts: (10:44): So you didn't put it in 20 years ago? Ms. Hobbs: (10:46): Yeah. Examiner Olbrechts: (10:47): Okay. So I mean specifically, so 2005 about you had it installed, is that right? Yes. Okay. Alright. Yeah. Yeah. Well that could be a factor because if you put it in before this regulation prohibiting outdoor storage was adopted, you might be grandfathered in. So that's why it's important to know. Do you have Appendix A -- Hobbs 4 (Completed 07/08/25) Transcript by Rev.com Page 6 of 9 any documentation about when you put it in the receipts from the people when you bought it or anything like that? Ms. Hobbs: (11:13): No, my documentation would be the when they sky over your house. Examiner Olbrechts: (11:23): Oh, aerial photographs, Google maps. Yeah. Yeah. Ms. Hobbs: (11:27): But I don't have any, and like I said, I wish I would've known 20 years ago that I would've needed to take down the people from the city of Renton that told me it was okay. Well, Examiner Olbrechts: (11:38): I mean if they said it was okay and it still wouldn't be okay. That doesn't help a lot. It's really what was going. That's what I Ms. Hobbs: (11:43): Think. I wish I would've. Examiner Olbrechts: (11:45): Yeah. Yeah. So mean, do you also have a garage in this house? Is this the only covered area you have for your car? Ms. Hobbs: (11:57): I do have a garage. Speaker 3 (11:59): It's in the Ms. Hobbs: (11:59): Back and the area between the fence line and the house is, it's not very wide over there. My mom passed away on the first of this year and I have to figure out how to get her Corvette out of the back area. And I mean, worst case scenario, but I'm pretty narrow Speaker 3 (12:33): And Ms. Hobbs: (12:33): That's why, otherwise that's what I would've done in the beginning Speaker 3 (12:38): From Appendix A -- Hobbs 4 (Completed 07/08/25) Transcript by Rev.com Page 7 of 9 Ms. Hobbs: (12:39): The start. I would much rather it be indoors. But the idea, I like to drive it. And the idea of over the years, the yards are, butch's yard is a little bit lower, and with rain and interruption, it's narrow. Speaker 3 (13:07): It Ms. Hobbs: (13:07): Would be scary. And there's no power steering in the Barracuda. Examiner Olbrechts: (13:11): Okay, gotcha. Ms. Hobbs: (13:12): Also. Examiner Olbrechts: (13:13): Alright. No, makes sense. Mr. Petzel, any questions of Ms. Hobbs? Speaker 3 (13:17): No, I don't have any questions. Examiner Olbrechts: (13:18): Mr. Petzel, I mean, do you know when the outdoor storage ordinance was adopted? Do you have any idea? I can look that up, but Mr. Petzold: (13:25): The last I looked is I saw 2012, it still wasn't adopted and I couldn't find anything beyond Examiner Olbrechts: (13:31): That. Mr. Petzold: (13:32): I said 3 0 8 was not adopted, so it's 2012 or later. Examiner Olbrechts: (13:35): Gotcha. Alright. I'm sorry. And did you have any questions of Ms. Hobbs or Okay. And any other evidence you wanted to present? Speaker 3 (13:44): No. Examiner Olbrechts: (13:44): Appendix A -- Hobbs 4 (Completed 07/08/25) Transcript by Rev.com Page 8 of 9 Okay. Do the parties object if I look at aerial Google maps to see when this was installed? Does City have any problem with Yeah, Mr. Petzold: (13:53): I can tell you the answer. Examiner Olbrechts: (13:54): Oh, okay. Mr. Petzold: (13:56): I just looked it up. It looks like in 2008 it wasn't, but in 2011 it was. Examiner Olbrechts: (14:02): Oh. So sometime between 2008. Oh. So definitely it was installed 2011 in Mr. Petzold: (14:07): Between eight and 11. Examiner Olbrechts: (14:08): Okay. Okay. Alright. I say you don't objectify if I just verify that and put that in the record. Speaker 3 (14:14): Absolutely. Examiner Olbrechts: (14:15): Yeah. So I'll take a look into the grandfather issue, Ms. Hobbs, see if that's possibly an out for you. And I mean, Mr. Pretzel, do you have any idea, do you think the city council intended the outdoor storage requirement to apply to carports or it's kind? Mr. Petzold: (14:31): I don't know that. I've only been a couple years, so I don't know their intended when they in Examiner Olbrechts: (14:36): No, I figured, Mr. Petzold: (14:37): Yeah, I understand what she's using it for. I get that. That's kind of why we're Examiner Olbrechts: (14:41): Here. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Well, let's see. Maybe the grandfather issue will address it. I'll check into it and figure out, I mean, as a decision maker, all the evidence I look at has to be available to everybody else. But when it comes to adopted ordinances, I can look that up on my own without sharing it with everybody. So I'll look into the ordinances and the aerial photographs that everyone said right. In Hobbs, it's okay. I look at the aerial photographs and see pinpoint, it sounds like 2011 and I'll look up the Appendix A -- Hobbs 4 (Completed 07/08/25) Transcript by Rev.com Page 9 of 9 regulations. If the regulations were adopted after 2011, then you very well may be grandfathered in an Okay. Yeah, we'll figure it out. Alright, well thanks all. I think we're done for today. Unless there's anything else on this, would Ms. Hobbs: (15:23): You like me to read the letter from my neighbor? Examiner Olbrechts: (15:26): Well, you could just, can you email that to Ms. Moya and I'll just make it part of the record. Speaker 3 (15:34): Okay. Examiner Olbrechts: (15:34): Yeah, I'll read it. Okay. Yeah, that sounds good. Mr. Petzel, any problem with that? Speaker 3 (15:38): No. Examiner Olbrechts: (15:38): Okay. Sounds good. Yeah, just email it to Ms. Moya and I'll read it. So we'll be set. Okay. Thanks all We're done for today. Speaker 3 (15:45): Thank you. Thank.