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HomeMy WebLinkAbout07-08-2025 - HEX Decision - Appendix A - RubyThis transcript was exported on Jul 08, 2025 - view latest version here. Appendix A - Ruby 5.20-Trimmed by Rev (Completed 07/08/25) Transcript by Rev.com Page 1 of 8 Speaker 1 (00:00): Here. So I got my recorder going. Speaker 2 (00:03): Recording in progress. Speaker 1 (00:04): Alright, for the record, it is May 20th, 2025, 10:00 AM and Phil Rex hearing examiner for the city of Renton this morning, holding a hearing on a code enforcement appeal, which is file number code 23 dash 0 0 0 0 5 2 for unauthorized membrane structure in a front yard. I believe. So the hearing format today is we'll have a presentation from staff and is that you Mr. Petzold? Are you going to be the city witness today? Okay. Mr. Petzold will give us an overview of what the code violation is about. The alleged code violation. The city has the burden of proof, so Mr. Petzel gets to go first and last after he presents the city's case. We then move on to Ms. Ruby. You'll have a chance to explain your side and present any other evidence you have other witnesses, whatever you want to do to present your side of the case. Once you're done, we go back to Mr. Petzel for rebuttal evidence and after that, basically have a couple of weeks to issue a decision. Mr. Petzold has put together kind of an agenda packet, which is all the documentation he feels is necessary to establish his case. And Mr. Rupe, hopefully you got it. A packet, it's composed of four exhibits. It has a code compliance narrative, a warning of violation, a second warning of violation, and then finally the notice of violation. Did you get those documents? Speaker 2 (01:25): Yes sir. Speaker 1 (01:26): Okay. Alright. Do you have any problem with them going into the record for my consideration? Okay, I'll go ahead and admit Exhibits one through four. Mr. Petzel, let me swear you in. Just raise your right hand. Do you swear affirm to tell the truth, nothing but the truth in this proceeding? Speaker 3 (01:40): I do. Speaker 1 (01:41): Okay. And Ms. Ruby, once Mr. Petzel is done with this testimony, you're free to ask him questions. Cross-examination is what they call it if you want. That's your option. So, alright, Mr. Petzel, go ahead. Speaker 3 (01:52): Okay, so on this one, on January 6th, 2025, I received an inspection request for membrane structure at this residence at 2316 Northeast 10th place. It noted that there was a membrane structure in the front yard, in the driveway, right on the property line, roughly probably 20 by 40 I believe, or 30 feet long. So I sent out a letter on that day for a warning of violation. And then on January 28th, the site reinspection noted that the membrane structure still present and no response from the O hundred. So I sent out a second warning of violation on February 6th, no response from the owner. So I sent an email copy of the violation of the owner to try to get response from her On February 24th, 2025. Spoke with Christine, Ms. Ruby about the violation. She wanted to appeal the violation. I told her we'd have to find her in order to This transcript was exported on Jul 08, 2025 - view latest version here. Appendix A - Ruby 5.20-Trimmed by Rev (Completed 07/08/25) Transcript by Rev.com Page 2 of 8 appeal the hearing, to appeal to the hearing examiner. She agreed. And I sent the notice a violation order to correct. So for the definition of a membrane structure that we have is it shall apply to air supported, air inflated, membrane covered cable membrane covered frame and tensile membrane structures. As a city, we define it as outdoor storage, which we limit outdoor storage to certain areas, which you cannot put 'em in the front yard, side yard slopes greater than 15% and designated open spaces. So in this case, the cover is in the front yard in the driveway. Speaker 1 (03:32): Okay. So where did that definition come from? I was looking for that Speaker 3 (03:35): One from international building code under, was it 3 1 0 2 Speaker 1 (03:43): 0.1310 2.1. Okay, well, and how do you know this is a membrane? Because yeah, like I said, I was looking for it. I didn't find that one. That sounds like much better than what I had. I had found membrane covered frame structure and membrane covered cable structure. And both of them talked about supporting like a tension membrane, which would be cloth I would think normally. I mean, how do you conclude? I mean in this case it, it's metal, right? So how is Speaker 3 (04:13): That? It is metal. Speaker 1 (04:16): How's that? A membrane? I guess when I think of membrane, I do think of something that's kind of stretched over some cable, which is the way these definitions are set up, but the ones I read. So yeah, that's why I find it confusing. Speaker 3 (04:29): I get that it doesn't identify if it's metal or I intent. So I get what you're saying, it doesn't identify as a metal. Speaker 1 (04:37): Yeah, that's a tough one. Speaker 3 (04:40): Let's see. Lemme see if I can read it differently. Yeah, that's the structures you ECT on. Let's see, Speaker 1 (04:50): That's Speaker 3 (04:51): The one I read. I don't read anything. This transcript was exported on Jul 08, 2025 - view latest version here. Appendix A - Ruby 5.20-Trimmed by Rev (Completed 07/08/25) Transcript by Rev.com Page 3 of 8 Speaker 1 (04:53): Yeah, that's what you got there. So I'll take a look at it. Then the other thing is, I mean, looking at the picture, it looks like that this, I mean carport structure essentially is it bolted into the ground or somehow fixed to the ground Speaker 3 (05:05): Stopped drill stakes in the ground Speaker 1 (05:08): To that. Okay. Yeah, because that kind of raises the issue of we have another one that you're still waiting for a decision on me about grandfather rights. I mean, if it is bolted in the ground, I think it'll qualify as a structure then. And therefore subject to the city's grandfather rights. I mean, was this built before or after the prohibition was adopted? Speaker 3 (05:31): It was fairly, so it was within a year or two. Speaker 1 (05:34): Okay. Yeah, we can let Ms. Ruby address that. So Ms. Ruby, did you have any questions of Mr. Petzel? Speaker 3 (05:39): No. Speaker 1 (05:40): Okay. Alright. And Mr. Petzel, did you have any other witnesses or testimony? Speaker 3 (05:45): The only thing I guess we noted it is right on the property line on the one side, so that, Speaker 1 (05:51): Oh, so that's a setback problem as well? Possibly. Okay. Alright. Speaker 2 (05:55): Possibly there is a couple of inches there so that she will have total access to her fence. Nothing's going to inhibit if she needs to replace her fence or fix it or Speaker 1 (06:06): Anything. Ms. Ruby, well first of all, let me swear you in. Just raise your right hand if you could. Do you swear affirm to tell the truth, nothing but the truth in this proceeding? Speaker 2 (06:13): Yes. This transcript was exported on Jul 08, 2025 - view latest version here. Appendix A - Ruby 5.20-Trimmed by Rev (Completed 07/08/25) Transcript by Rev.com Page 4 of 8 Speaker 1 (06:14): Okay. And you're saying she will have Who's she? What's that about? Speaker 2 (06:17): The neighbor that complained. Speaker 1 (06:19): Oh, I see. Okay. Okay. Alright. Alright, well, so what did you want to say in your defense, Ms. Ruby? Speaker 2 (06:27): I've lived in my home for 35 plus years and I've been dealing with the SAP from that tree ever since then. At the beginning it wasn't so bad, but now that the tree's bigger, there are more branches and limbs and things hanging over my driveway and it actually over into my yard. The sack drips continuously. I've had a couple of cars I've lost value on because it's ruined the paint job. It's really bad when you get dressed up to go someplace and you have to go out and now there's sap on your windshield. Now you have to go back in the house, get a towel, get step stools, the cleaning stuff a razor to scrape it off. So I've done that. I can't count how many times. And the worst part is when you're doing that and then the sap drips in your hair and now you are going to go someplace with sapping your hair. I've had it drip on my clothes, it's ruined my clothes. The only reason it's taken me years and years to save up money to be able to put the new cement slab down, to put the cardboard cover on to protect my property. Speaker 1 (07:47): Okay. And is this what kind of aluminum or steel or what's this thing? Speaker 2 (07:50): Yes, it's a metal. It's called Versa Tube. I have all the specs and stuff for it. All it is is a carport cover. We don't have anything under it. We're not storing stuff. It's strictly cover our cars to protect them from the sack. Speaker 1 (08:07): So you basically have these steel panels and you screw them in onto the frame? Is that how it's put together? Yeah, you Speaker 2 (08:13): Set the frame up first and then I have a picture here. I was going to show you what it looked like. And then yes, once you get the frame put together, then you put on the, set it to the ground and then you put the roof panels on it. Speaker 1 (08:35): Okay. So Speaker 2 (08:36): This is the frame. This transcript was exported on Jul 08, 2025 - view latest version here. Appendix A - Ruby 5.20-Trimmed by Rev (Completed 07/08/25) Transcript by Rev.com Page 5 of 8 Speaker 1 (08:40): Of Speaker 2 (08:40): Course, mine's for two cars, but then just the top part has the cover on it. Speaker 1 (08:46): Okay. And what do they call that when you bought it? Do they call it a carport structure or what's the name of it? Yes, they just call it a carport. Speaker 2 (08:53): They can call it multiple things. They've called it storage. They've called it a carport cover. It's a classic carport structure. Speaker 1 (09:05): I see. Okay. And when did you put it up? It was pretty recently, it sounds like. Speaker 2 (09:09): Yeah, I think, let's see, purchased it on 1112. Speaker 1 (09:21): So it went up Speaker 2 (09:22): Not too long after that. Speaker 1 (09:25): 1112. Oh, you mean last November? Speaker 2 (09:28): I'm sorry? You Speaker 1 (09:28): Said 1112. You mean last November of last year? Speaker 2 (09:31): Correct. Speaker 1 (09:31): Oh, okay. Okay. Alright, Mr. Petzel, any question of Ms. Ruby? Speaker 3 (09:37): No. This transcript was exported on Jul 08, 2025 - view latest version here. Appendix A - Ruby 5.20-Trimmed by Rev (Completed 07/08/25) Transcript by Rev.com Page 6 of 8 Speaker 1 (09:37): Okay. Alright. Alright, well I'll take a look, Ms. Ruby. I think the big outstanding issue, and I have another case kind of along the same lines, is whether this qualifies as a membrane. So I just got to look at the definition real quick. As I said, because some other definitions of it, it sounds like it has to be something that's stretched over cable or a frame. And in this case, these are just metal planks that you put on and screwed in. So I don't know if it really, the Speaker 2 (10:05): Only reason that we put it so close to the property line is because we have a garage in the back, Speaker 1 (10:10): I Speaker 2 (10:10): Need access to drive Speaker 1 (10:12): Through Speaker 2 (10:13): To get to the back. So if I move it over any, then that blocks my passage to get to my backyard. Speaker 1 (10:19): Yeah, no, I understand. And Speaker 2 (10:21): So the same thing, if I didn't have it, I'd be parking on the street, but over years, I've had a couple of cars stolen. I've had a couple of cars broken into and stereos stolen out of them. I've had one that somebody came around the corner too fast and my car got hit. I see. These are all things that happened when I have to park on the street. Speaker 1 (10:42): Oh, okay. Speaker 2 (10:43): So again, I've been dealing with this for so long and I was just finally the relief of having that up there and not have to go out there and clean my car every day or change my clothes or pull it out of my hair, the same thing. It gets in my dog's hair and then they're stuck. All that sap is stuck in their feet and it is truly, and I'm the only one around here for multiple blocks that has a pine tree right over my driveway, most everybody else's or in their backyard or places like that where it doesn't affect them. So this is my issue. Speaker 1 (11:26): This transcript was exported on Jul 08, 2025 - view latest version here. Appendix A - Ruby 5.20-Trimmed by Rev (Completed 07/08/25) Transcript by Rev.com Page 7 of 8 Okay. No, I understand. I mean, I don't have the authority to waive requirements because it's just really a hassle to have to deal with something like that. But there is a genuine issue. But in your case about whether these regulations actually prohibit that structure. So that's the thing I'm going to focus on. Like I say, I may be able to say there's no violation because your carport qualify as a membrane structure. That's what I'm looking at the legal side. If it does, then you could apply for a variance. That's when you do consider the problems that causes staff have to comply with the law, but you don't want to go through the time and expense of that if you can help it. So like I said, I just need to check out if this really qualifies as a membrane structure. Kind of a common understanding of membrane is something that's kind of stretched over something. And that seems to be what the definitions are possibly saying there. Speaker 2 (12:25): We had one like that before we had this one. Speaker 1 (12:28): Right. Speaker 2 (12:28): I it was just a really thin middle tube and it was stretched over with white, the blue. Speaker 1 (12:38): Yeah. See and I think that's Speaker 2 (12:41): What we had before Speaker 1 (12:42): And I think maybe that possibly that's what these regulations are geared out. I just have to look at how they're put together. But yeah, because like I said, I have another code enforcement case, kind of the same issue. So both of them I'll be looking at Speaker 2 (12:53): Closely. Yeah, she's the lady down the street. Speaker 1 (12:54): Oh is she? Okay. Gotcha. Gotcha. Alright. Okay. Yeah, it's a tough one. I'll figure it out though, and we'll get that decision out in the next few weeks. So anyway, thank you both for participating today and like I said, I'll get that written decision out in a couple weeks and hopefully we'll get this Speaker 2 (13:10): Resolved. Will I get notified by mail? Speaker 1 (13:12): Oh yeah, definitely. Well, it's Ms. Moya, do you want, I mean, if you can take it by email, I think that's easier for Ms. Moya, but if you want it hard copy in mail, you can get it that way. This transcript was exported on Jul 08, 2025 - view latest version here. Appendix A - Ruby 5.20-Trimmed by Rev (Completed 07/08/25) Transcript by Rev.com Page 8 of 8 Speaker 2 (13:22): Email will get to me faster, but I just want to know what to look for. Speaker 1 (13:26): Okay. You're okay with email? That's fine. Okay. Is that okay Ms. Moya? Speaker 2 (13:31): Yeah. Is your email still C-R-U-B-Y c2@comcast.net? Yes, ma'am. Perfect. Speaker 1 (13:40): Okay. We will get that decision out to you. Okay. Thanks both. We'll see you later. Goodbye. Speaker 2 (13:47): What would be the latest state that I would hear by? Speaker 1 (13:50): I try to get it out in a couple weeks. Yeah, two weeks. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 2 (13:53): Okay. Speaker 1 (13:53): Okay. Thanks a lot. Speaker 2 (13:55): Thank you.