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HomeMy WebLinkAbout10-14-2024 - HEX Decision - Chavez OFFICE OF THE HEARING EXAMINER CITY OF RENTON REPORT AND DECISION – APPEAL OF FINDING OF VIOLATION AND ORDER TO CORRECT (CODE23-000431) Appellant: Izzy Chavez, Dubsea Properties LLC 29114 45th Ave S Auburn, WA 98001 Alleged Violation: No building permit. Location of Violation: 17632 1118th Ave SE Renton, WA 98058-6604 Public Hearing: September 10, 2024 Decision: Finding of Violation sustained; $100 fine imposed and will be applied to required permit fees if corrective action taken as directed by City building department staff. Corrective action: File timely construction permits as directed by City building department staff. SUMMARY OF DECISION Izzy Chavez on behalf of Dubsea Properties LLC, has appealed a Notice of Violation (NOV) alleging that he has undertaken a remodel of a single-family home without required building permits. Mr. Chavez doesn’t dispute the alleged violation. Rather, he doesn’t have the funds necessary to timely complete required corrective action. Most significant, the remodel has triggered a requirement that he connect to public sewer. The home is currently on septic and there are no deficiencies in the septic system currently identified in the record. Mr. Chavez is currently residing in the home, an investment property, and he would like to sell the home as soon as he acquires the funds to complete the corrective action. At hearing City code enforcement staff identified that it may be possible to allow Mr. Chavez to remain living in the home until required improvements are completed if he can pass a safety inspection from the City’s building department. Code enforcement staff were not certain at the time of hearing if it building staff could make such an accommodation. Mr. Chavez will be authorized to occupy the home if the City’s building staff authorizes him to do so. The $100 fine imposed by the NOV shall be suspended pending completion of required corrective action. Upon successful completion, the $100 fine may be applied to required permit application fees or refunded if the fees have been fully paid. Appeal of Finding of Violation Page 2 HEARING TESTIMONY A computer-generated transcript of the hearing has been prepared to provide an overview of the hearing testimony. The transcript is provided for informational purposes only as Appendix A. EXHIBITS Exhibits 1-7 identified in the City’s Exhibit List were admitted during the September 10, 2024 hearing. FINDINGS OF FACT 1. Appellant. Izzy Chavez on behalf of Dubsea Properties LLC, 29114 45th Ave S Auburn, WA 98001. 2. Property. 17632 118th Ave SE, Renton, WA 98058-6604. 3. Finding of Violation. A Finding of Violation (“FOV”) was issued to Dubsea Properties, LLC on July 16, 2024. The FOV asserts that a single-family home was remodeled without a building permit as required by RMC 4-5-060. 4. Appeal. Mr. Chavez filed an appeal of the FOV on July 22, 2024. 5. Unpermitted Improvements. It is determined that the single-family home of the violation site was improved with new construction in the kitchen, fireplace, removal of hot but and installation of new wiring. These improvements were witnessed by a City Building Inspector, Austin Carter. The Appellant does not contest that these improvements were made without a permit. CONCLUSIONS OF LAW 1. Authority of Examiner: The Hearing Examiner has the authority and jurisdiction to review code violations as provided in RMC 1-10-3C5. 2. Code Violation: The code violation identified in Finding of Fact No. 3 is quoted below and applied to this appeal via a corresponding conclusion of law. RMC 4-5-060(E)(1)): 105.1 Required. Any owner or owner’s authorized agent who intends to construct, enlarge, alter, repair, move, demolish, or change the occupancy of a building or structure, or to erect, install, enlarge, alter, repair, remove, convert or replace any electrical, gas, mechanical or plumbing system, the installation of which is regulated by the Construction Codes and the Construction Appeal of Finding of Violation Page 3 Administrative Code, or to cause any such work to be done, shall first make application to the building official and obtain the required permit. 3. Appellant in Violation. The Appellant has violated RCW 4-5-060(E)(1) for failing to acquire building permit approval for numerous home improvements as determined in Finding of Fact No. 5. As noted in the FOV, RMC 4-5-060 Section 101.2 identifies the International Residential Code (“IRC”) as comprising part of the City’s “Construction Codes.” The IRC requires a building permit for the home improvements and Mr. Colee does not contest this fact. Consequently, since the Appellant failed to acquire a “required permit” under Section 105.1 as quoted above, his is in violation of RMC 4-5- 060(E)(1). 4. Waiver of Fines. RMC 1-10-5C5 authorizes the hearing examiner to modify fines considering factors such as the nature of the offense, the impact on the neighbors, neighborhood, or community and the need to discourage such conduct, inactivity or neglect. For the reasons identified in the Summary of Decision and Finding of Fact No. 6, the $100 fine imposed by the FOV will be waived if the Appellant meets the compliance deadlines set by this decision. DECISION The Finding of Violation (CODE23- 000431) is sustained, and the appeal is denied. The $100 fine, as authorized by RMC 1-3-2(F)(1), is sustained and due within 15 days of this decision. If the Appellant remedies the code violation by the deadlines imposed by building department staff the fine shall be applied to permit fees or refunded if permit fees have been paid in full. The Appellant may occupy the home pending abatement as found safe by building department staff to do so. Occupancy can be conditioned by staff upon acquiring specified construction permits and a waiver of liability may also be required. ORDER TO CORRECT The Appellant is required to file complete application(s) for all required construction permits for the remodel identified in this Decision within deadlines set by City building department staff. At a minimum, the deadlines set by the City shall be at least 15 calendar days from the date of this decision. Failure to correct as ordered shall subject the Appellant to criminal prosecution authorized by RMC 1-10-7A1. Failure to comply with an Order to Correct can be prosecuted as a misdemeanor. The maximum penalties for a misdemeanor are 90 days in jail and $1,000 in fines. DATED this 15th day of October, 2024. Hearing Examiner Appeal of Finding of Violation Page 4 NOTICE OF RIGHT TO APPEAL An appeal of the decision of the Hearing Examiner must be filed with Superior Court within twenty-one calendar days, as required by the Land Use Petition Act, Chapter 36.70C RCW. Renton September 10 Chavez (Completed 10/14/24) Transcript by Rev.com Page 1 of 13 Appendix A September 10, 2024 Hearing Transcript Chavez Code Enforcement -- CODE23-000431 Note: This is a computer-generated transcript provided for informational purposes only. The reader should not take this document as 100% accurate or take offense at errors created by the limitations of the programming in transcribing speech. A recording of the hearing is available at the City of Renton Community and Economic Development Department should anyone need an accurate rendition of the hearing testimony. Examiner Olbrechts: (00:01): Perfect. Okay, for the record, it is September 10th, 2024, 9:00 AM I'm Rex Hearing Examiner for the City of Renton holding a hearing this morning on an appeal of a notice of violation and order to correct against WC properties LLC. This is code file 23 dash 0 4 3 1. And it looks like we have, is that Ms. Matson here on behalf of the city today? Ms. Locher: (00:28): No, it's me. Examiner Olbrechts: (00:28): Oh, okay. Ms. Locker, Ms. Locher: (00:30): Your Honor, it's Donna. Examiner Olbrechts: (00:32): Alright. Ms. Locher: (00:33): She just had to sign in because our computers weren't working. Sorry. Examiner Olbrechts: (00:36): Okay. Okay, no problem. And let's see who do we got here on behalf of the applicants then? I see that the video says it's Mr. Wynn, is that correct? But I heard your name was different. Speaker 1 (00:48): It's Tino Win. Examiner Olbrechts: (00:50): Renton September 10 Chavez (Completed 10/14/24) Transcript by Rev.com Page 2 of 13 Oh, Tywood. Okay. Speaker 1 (00:51): My Zoom is registered under Tywin. Examiner Olbrechts: (00:54): Oh, okay. Speaker 1 (00:55): Izzy is using my Zoom. Oh, Examiner Olbrechts: (00:58): Okay. What's your name sir? For the record? Mr. Chavez: (01:00): So my nickname's Izzy, but I go by Ismail. Examiner Olbrechts: (01:03): Okay. Mr. Chavez: (01:04): I'm sorry, my name's Ismail, last name's Chavez. I go by Izzy. Examiner Olbrechts: (01:07): Okay, great. Alright, thanks Mr. Chavez. Alright, so the hearing format is the city has the burden of proof, so they'll make their presentation first. Explain why they believe some violations have been committed. Mr. Chaz, you'll have an opportunity to cross examine Ms. Loker on any testimony she provides. If you want, don't have to, but that's at your option. Once Ms. Loker is done presenting her witnesses and evidence, then Mr. Chavez, you'll have a chance to present your side of the issue and you two will be subject to cross-examination for Ms. Loker as well as any of your witnesses. Then we go back to the city who had, because they have the burden of proof, they get a chance to provide rebuttal evidence. And after that I get about 10 business days to issue a decision a couple of weeks. Any questions about the process, Mr. Chavez, or what we're doing here today? Mr. Chavez: (01:56): No, sir. Examiner Olbrechts: (01:57): Okay. Mr. Chavez: (01:58): I'll say this is my first hearing ever. Examiner Olbrechts: (02:00): Renton September 10 Chavez (Completed 10/14/24) Transcript by Rev.com Page 3 of 13 Okay. Alright. Mr. Chavez: (02:01): I might not be the best knowledgeable on this or how to go about it, so I'm just entrusting in you guys to kind of educate me on the process. Examiner Olbrechts: (02:09): Okay. And like I said, if you got any questions as we go along, ask them. These hearings aren't super formal, we just want to make sure that these code violations, alleged code violations get addressed one way or another. Now, by state law, I'm only allowed to consider evidence that's put in the record today. Mr. Chavez, I haven't talked to staff about your case. I don't know anything about it except for documents that staff provided me in advance of the hearing. And you too should have received a copy of that. I'm going to put those up on the zoom screen at this point. Let's see if I share my screen. Where is that? Ms. Locher: (02:51): I put you as co-host, so you should be able to, Examiner Olbrechts: (02:54): Okay. Yeah, I'm just not finding, that's weird. Ms. Locher: (02:59): I feel like Zoom updated. Examiner Olbrechts: (03:03): Yeah, hold on a second. Let's see. Oh, I think I know what the problem is. Here we go. Okay, that should work. And oh, there we go. Okay. Just couldn't find the screen to share. Alright, so Mr. Chavez, did you see in front of you right now is the notice of violation and order to correct that was issued against you? I'm going to scroll down to the beginning of these documents here. Okay. So Ms. Loker has put together a packet of documents and Mr. Chavez, did you receive these? It would've been the code compliance narrative. Oh, here's the list of exhibits, the code compliance narrative information pertaining to the warning of violation emails between, I guess that was a prior owner, right. And the city regarding permitting some information about a stop work order. Then we have two warnings of violation and then the notice of violation as well as your appeal. Have you received these documents yourself? Mr. Chavez: (04:09): I should have. Examiner Olbrechts: (04:09): Okay. Do you have any objection to entering the record and objection at this point would just be based on, you don't think these documents are relevant to what we're talking about today or they're not authentic. There's a picture in there that says it's a picture of the property and it's not that kind of thing. Do you have any issues like that with these documents? Mr. Chavez: (04:27): Renton September 10 Chavez (Completed 10/14/24) Transcript by Rev.com Page 4 of 13 I haven't gone through this link of documents, so I don't know exactly all the documents that are on here. Examiner Olbrechts: (04:34): Oh, okay. Do you want a little time to look these over before we move forward or Mr. Chavez: (04:38): No, that's okay. Examiner Olbrechts: (04:38): That's okay. I'll go ahead then and I'll admit these documents exhibit one through seven. And let's move on then to Ms. Loker. Ms. Loker, let swear you in. Just raise your right hand. Do you swear affirm to tell the truth, nothing but the truth in this proceeding? I do. Okay, great. Go ahead. Ms. Locher: (04:55): Okay, good morning everybody. We're here because on September 5th, 2023, one of my building inspectors, Austin Carter, posted a stop work order at 1 7 6 3 2 118th Avenue Southeast here in Renton. The inspector noted that they remodeled the downstairs kitchen fireplace, removed a recessed hot tub, demoed an existing part of the house and ran new wire for pens and switches. So when that happens, I open a code case and send a notice to the owner who at this point was dub C properties. And that was sent on, like I said, September 7th. Then I had a call from Henry Lou Pacific Studio Architects September 27th and 28th. I had notes from the permit tech that he had contacted them regarding the permits. So anyway, the reason we're here, there are photos of the work that was done without permits. And Mr. Chavez, you and I spoke on the telephone and agreed that you needed permits to continue with this house. (06:32): And when that didn't happen through the course of on 12 6 23 was the original posting, like I said, and then we had to repost the house. And then because no permits, even with all the emails going back and forth between the permit techs and your architect, we got an application for a billing permit, but we never got all the information to proceed with doing a plan review on it. So here we are a year later and we still don't have a building permit that's been issued for this property. So when that happens, then I go ahead and issue a notice of violation in order to correct. And this one was in the amount of a hundred dollars, which is quite low for our fees. And basically the reason we're here is we want Mr. Chavez and Dubey properties to go ahead with completing everything they need for the building permit application, get it issued, get it inspected and final. Examiner Olbrechts: (07:56): Okay. Mr. Chavez, did you have any questions of Ms. Loker? Mr. Chavez: (08:01): I do not. I would just ask, I'm just curious if she remembers our first conversation, first time we ever spoke. I want to say it may have been in December, it may have been prior to December. You reached out to me because we had put the house on the market and you told me, Hey, how are you going to sell this house if you haven't pulled permits? Do you recall that conversation? Renton September 10 Chavez (Completed 10/14/24) Transcript by Rev.com Page 5 of 13 Ms. Locher: (08:25): I do. Mr. Chavez: (08:27): And yeah, where that conversation came from and I don't know, is it my time to speak or Examiner Olbrechts: (08:31): No, no, that was, you're just asking questions at this point, but you'll have a chance to speak pretty soon. Mr. Chavez: (08:37): I'll hold off on that. Examiner Olbrechts: (08:37): I'll just send Mr. Chavez: (08:38): You note no questions, but I guess that was a question which you answered. Thank you for being able to recall that conversation. Examiner Olbrechts: (08:44): And Mr. Chavez, just to maybe save some time on this hearing, are you disputing that you need permits for the property? Because I can ask Ms. Loker to bring up her witness to explain how he determined that permits were acquired. But if you're not disputing that, we don't need to go through all that. It's up to you. Mr. Chavez: (09:04): I'm not disputing that. Examiner Olbrechts: (09:05): Okay. Okay. So you acknowledge that permits are required for the remodel as alleged in the notice of violation, is that correct? That's Speaker 5 (09:12): Correct. Examiner Olbrechts: (09:12): Okay. Alright. Alright, Ms. Loker, anything else you want to present at this point? Ms. Locher: (09:18): I guess I would just ask what Mr. Chavez's timeline is to get the remainder of the information to the city so that we can process this building permit. Examiner Olbrechts: (09:29): Renton September 10 Chavez (Completed 10/14/24) Transcript by Rev.com Page 6 of 13 Okay. Alright. Yes, Mr. Chavez, let me swear you in first. Just raise your right hand. Do you swear affirm to tell the truth, nothing but the truth in this proceeding? Mr. Chavez: (09:36): Yes, sir. Examiner Olbrechts: (09:36): Okay, great. Go ahead. Yeah, Mr. Chavez: (09:39): So it's Donna, right? Ms. Locher: (09:41): Correct. Mr. Chavez: (09:42): Yeah. So when you reached out to me that time and we had the property on the market, I personally didn't do any of the work. I had a general contractor where we had done prior, I'm newer to this business, so I had a general contractor, we'd already done a few flips together and I was under the impression he's a gc. So when you hire a gc, from as much as I know with the time that I've been doing this, they take care of the entire process where I can be just, I'm a hands off type of guy. I run a lot of businesses, so I just hire the professionals. I pay them a premium so that they can do all the heavy lifting for me and I can do it. I do. So I hired this gc, we'd already been working for a couple of years where I think we're family at this point. (10:31): I considered him family. I have fired him since then, since this incident came up. But we were under the impression the entire time that the permits were pulled. And so when we decided to put the property on the market, Donna, because this was going to be a flip for me. I was buying it, rehabbing it, I was going to put it back on the market and resell it, which by the way, this has caused me such a inconvenience. It has been a really tough last 12 months that I've had to move into the property, which was never my plan to fix this property, to move into it, but I'm over. I'd say this probably has cost me 300,000 in damages total. Not just having to move into this property and feeling like I'm stuck. But when you called me, that really shocked me because I was very confused. I'm sure you can remember from the phone call, I was like, Hey, there must be some sort of mistake. And if you can recall, I was like, let me conference, call my contractor with you while I have you on the line, because as far as I know, we're just waiting on the final stamp from you guys over at the city, which we were already under contract with another family to buy this house. Speaker 1 (11:35): Yeah, I was on the phone with you. I was agent. Examiner Olbrechts: (11:40): Oh ma'am. Let me swear you into raise your right hand. Do you swear for him tell the truth, nothing but the truth in this proceeding? Renton September 10 Chavez (Completed 10/14/24) Transcript by Rev.com Page 7 of 13 Speaker 1 (11:46): Yes, Examiner Olbrechts: (11:46): I do. What's your name again for the record? Kai. Okay, great. Go ahead. Speaker 6 (11:50): Come in a little bit closer so they can see Speaker 1 (11:52): You. So was the listing agent, and we were just waiting from what the contractor told us that they needed the final approval of the final stamp for the buyers to move in. And that's what he told us. And so that's the reason why we spent $3,000 staging the house. We put it on the market, we had a full price offer and we were getting ready to close. And when I spoke to Donna, Donna was like, well, they can't move in because the permits have never been issued or nothing has been submitted. And so that was a shock to us. So we can't go backwards. We just need to make a plan to get Izzy final into that process. We need to get the permits, we need to get plans reviewed and that process going. Mr. Chavez: (12:43): And I'll just add one more thing. Just tell them the Speaker 1 (12:45): Timeline. Mr. Chavez: (12:46): Yeah, I'll just add one more thing to that timeline that she's asking for. So Donna, once I fired the general contractor, when I determined he was being dishonest, which is very difficult because like I said, I considered this individual to be a family member. Then I kind of started, I'm not a general contractor, so I had to figure out from scratch, okay, how does this process work? So I started reaching out to all the different departments. I spoke to architects, I spoke to engineers, I spoke to surveyors, and I'm trying to figure this process out. And I got to the process where someone's in the city, Hey, before we can pull permits, the first step that you need to do is you need to submit an application to the King County Health Department. So I got in touch with an architect. I got the plan so that I could, because you have to submit the plans for the work that you're doing with the application for the health department. (13:39): So I got in touch with an architect. I got the plans, I submitted, I showed them the work that we were going to do that had already been done. And then they disapproved it and they said, Hey Izzy, the reason why you're being disapproved is because the work that you're doing to the property will not be supported by the septic system that's in the property. Okay, great. So then they say, Hey, you're going to have to get in touch with the city. You're going to have to get in touch with Zeus Creek to determine, oh, also they said you're 100 feet from a sewer line, from a sewer manhole. So because of that, you have to connect to a sewer manhole. I just told you guys, I'm probably like 300,000 deep into this house, which that's a lot of money. That's probably every dollar. I can't even sleep at night because how stressful this has been the last 12 months. (14:28): Renton September 10 Chavez (Completed 10/14/24) Transcript by Rev.com Page 8 of 13 So I get in touch with Seuss Creek. This is my property, right? My property line, there's a manhole at this corner of my property. Seuss Creek says you cannot use that manhole. You're going to have to do an 80 foot extension from this manhole to the other side of your property line to be able to connect the sewer. That when I got bids for that, that was going to be an additional 120 to 150,000. At this point, I don't have any money left. I'm broke. I'm trying to just make ends meet. At this point, I'm trying to figure this thing out. I had to move into the house. I had no plans to live in this property. Again. We were planning to flip it. And so I don't have 150,000 to connect the property to sewer so that then I can apply for the permits. I can't apply for permits until the property is connected to sewer based on what I believe I understood from the people at the King County Health Department and the people at Seuss Creek and the contractors that I got bids on to do that. Sewer line extension, Speaker 1 (15:32): I guess I'm just confused because when the contractor remodeled it, there was never an additional room that was added and the kitchen downstairs was already there. When I first walked that property, there was already a refrigerator down there, a bar down there. Everything was already there for a mother-in- law concept. So it made sense to just remodel it as existing. So I was in shock that it wouldn't hold the capacity when we didn't add any, the contractor didn't add anything to the property. We didn't add additional room or additional kitchen that was already there, wasn't there. It was just remodeled the cabinets, everything that was taken out and put new cabinets in, you would remodel your house. Mr. Chavez: (16:33): Hopefully we're not going all over the place. Speaker 1 (16:34): Sorry, I want to be off topic, but that was one key piece that I was a little bit confused about, Donna, that we had. Izzy was required to connect to sewer because they couldn't handle the septic, couldn't handle the capacity, but nothing was added. So that was my big confusion. And he had gone through all these loopholes and Mr. Chavez: (16:58): I add one more thing. And so then Donna, I mentioned to I think the King County Health Department, or it may have been the city of Brenton, I don't remember a hundred percent who it was. I said, Hey, how about if, because when we did the septic inspection, the septic inspection passed. And so I was like, Hey, how about if we gut out the kitchen and just have the one kitchen? They said No. I said, okay, how about if we replace the septic system? They said, no. I said, how about if we do some sort of repair to the septic system? They said, no. So the only option that they gave me was to connect to sewer. And even though there's a manhole right in front of my house, they will not allow me to connect to that manhole. They want me to do that 80 foot extension to the other side of my property and then be able to connect the sewer. And because it's a main sewer line, it's on a busy street, it requires traffic control. Traffic control. It requires all these dirt, you have to remove dirt, and then you have to bring all this other dirt. I don't know the whole intricacies of it, but just for whatever that's worth. Examiner Olbrechts: (18:03): So I didn't quite hear. What was your timeline then? I mean, with all these, it sounds like a night. Mr. Chavez: (18:08): Renton September 10 Chavez (Completed 10/14/24) Transcript by Rev.com Page 9 of 13 Definitely. What is your name, by the way? Examiner Olbrechts: (18:11): I'm Phil Alberg. I'm the hearing Phil. Mr. Chavez: (18:14): It's going to take me, real estate is a really tough, this is a really tough time for people in real estate right now. Interest rates are all time high. There's a lot of uncertainties. Anyways, I'm not going to bore you with that stuff. For me to make 150,000 on top of everything else that I have going on in my business, this is my office that we're in right now. We pay $3,000 a month here in my office. I don't know how long it's going to take me to come up with 150,000 when I already came up for 300,000 to even be able to be just to breathe. Examiner Olbrechts: (18:49): Okay. Okay. So you're saying you just don't know. You don't have the money. You can't do what they're required Speaker 1 (18:55): A year if it's two years, to be able to come up with the funds and then to hire someone to redraw it. And it's like the city doesn't talk to the sewer company. So it's like there's a lot of gaps in the communication as well. Examiner Olbrechts: (19:12): Okay. That's another question I had is who's requiring the sewer extension? It's the sewer district, not the city, right? Is that correct? Mr. Chavez: (19:19): No. No. Sorry. I don't know. Would you happen to know who's requiring me to do? I believe it's the city of Renton because I'm within a hundred feet from a sewer line. But then again, they're not allowing me to connect to that a hundred. Examiner Olbrechts: (19:31): Well, I think that the city probably is the one requiring me to connect to the sewer line. But it's a sewer district that's requiring that 80 foot extension, it sounds Speaker 6 (19:38): Like. Yes, correct. Sea Creek, Examiner Olbrechts: (19:40): Yeah. Sue Creek. Okay. Alright. Ms. Loker, did you have any questions of Mr. Chavez? Ms. Locher: (19:47): Can I just add a comment to your sewer line extension? That is anytime you're on septic for any building permit within the city of Renton, we have to get King County septic approval. And then it is up to them Renton September 10 Chavez (Completed 10/14/24) Transcript by Rev.com Page 10 of 13 and the sewer district to decide if you need to go on sewer. If you're within 200 feet, which you are, or your septic system is good and will support what you were doing. So that's how that comes about. That's not a requirement by the city. That's a requirement by the water and sewer district and the King County Health Department. That sounds about right. Examiner Olbrechts: (20:30): Yeah. Yeah. And now I don't know if you've talked to them about if they have an appeal process or something for challenging their requirement, but I mean for the city, if you disagreed with an interpretation or something, you could ask for a formal interpretation that could be appealed to me or something. But I don't know what the district process is unfortunately. So was there anything else you wanted to say, Mr. Chavez or Mr. Chavez: (20:53): I don't think so. Examiner Olbrechts: (20:55): Okay. Mr. Chavez: (20:55): I mean, I could be here and talk to you guys all day on how much of a burden this has been, but Examiner Olbrechts: (21:02): Okay. Ms. Loker, any comments or any suggestions on how to deal with the situation? Ms. Locher: (21:10): Absolutely. Okay. Can I call you Izzy? Yeah, yeah, of course. I called you Izzy forever, and Mr. Chavez seems so formal and so thank you. Thank you for letting me call you Izzy anyway. Okay. I understand everything you're saying. Okay. And that makes sense. And you did take the house off the market and you did start the building that process. I do understand that there's a lot of money involved when you want to connect to sewer. The reason we're here is not because we want your a hundred dollars, okay? We just want assurance from you that you're going to move ahead with the project, which you said you are. It's going to take some time to get the money, but the one thing that concerns me is you're also living in the property. Mr. Chavez: (22:02): I don't want to live there. Ms. Locher: (22:04): Well, I don't want you to live there either because the permits aren't filed and we don't know that it's safe. And that's all we're concerned about. We're fire life safety. We don't don't care what colors you use, what you put in there, how you do it, as long as you get the proper permits. (22:21): And the one thing that was on there is there was some electrical that was done. So that concerns me with you being in the property. So if you have somewhere else you can stay, that would be okay with Renton September 10 Chavez (Completed 10/14/24) Transcript by Rev.com Page 11 of 13 me. That would be good. And it would be safe for you. I'm willing to waive the a hundred dollars and it's not a lot, but it's money. You don't have to pay out. I could ask the hearings examiner to dismiss that, and I'm willing to do that. I just need to know that you'll continue to work with the water and sewer district and the health department. I don't know if they have an appeal process. I don't work with Sues Creek very often, but between the two of us, we should be able to get an answer from them. I will do some research. You do some research, and we'll see what we can come up with as far as, instead of extending 80 feet, that can be quite spendy and just get an answer as to why we can't hook up to the corner of your, where the lot meets the street there. Is that acceptable to you? Mr. Chavez: (23:38): And there's been phone calls where maybe two or three times after my third time, I'm kind of just begging them. I'm like, man, I'm in a really tough bind here. Can you guys just make an exception for me? I'm just asking you. And they're just so firm. They're just like, Examiner Olbrechts: (23:56): Because Mr. Chavez: (23:58): If we allowed you to hook up to this manhole, we would have to allow the neighbors to hook up to it. The only option that you have is to do this 80 foot extension. And so I don't mind doing that 80 foot extension. I wanted to develop the back of the property with time at this point, build something else back there. The laws are changing into this next year that we're going into. I'm not in the position to be able to do it right now. Examiner Olbrechts: (24:24): Ms. Looker is, I mean, does city, it sounds like the big problem here is just we're not getting a definite timeline as to when this could be done. It could take a lot of time, but I mean, is the city okay with the house as long as it's unoccupied, the city doesn't really have too much concern if this is going to take another year or two. Is that Ms. Locher: (24:43): Correct? As long as it's occupied, we are good with that. Just knowing that the permits that have already been applied for will probably be expired Speaker 5 (24:55): At Ms. Locher: (24:56): That time. So an extension will have to be requested, or they're going to probably want new plans. Examiner Olbrechts: (25:04): Is there anything that Mr. Chavez can do to occupy the house while he's getting permits? I mean, for example, if he gets the electrical cleared, would the city be comfortable with them staying? Mr. Chavez: (25:17): Renton September 10 Chavez (Completed 10/14/24) Transcript by Rev.com Page 12 of 13 Lemme just say one more thing guys. I want to say this before you answer that. I have a daughter, and this is our house right now, and I can't be, she needs a place, she needs a place to call home. She needs a foundation. I can't be, unfortunately, I'm not in a position, like I said, all of my money is in this house. I cannot touch any of that money. It's just stuck there right now. And I'm a single father, and I do this by myself and it's really hard. So I'm just, I don't want to waste nobody's time. I'm just being very honest with you guys. I cannot unup occupy the property. If I unoccupied the property that puts me in a homeless situation with my daughter, I'm not going to do that to her or to myself. Examiner Olbrechts: (26:11): Yeah. Ms. Loker, what I could do is I could write up the decision that the city could do some kind of a safety check and determine what's necessary. If something can be done that they can occupy while they're waiting, I don't know if that's a possibility. I could leave the condition so that you determine there's nothing that could be done that would be okay. Ms. Locher: (26:30): Sure. What I would need to do is talk with the building official who is the head of department and my supervisor. And I will do that. I can do that. Examiner Olbrechts: (26:43): We'll Ms. Locher: (26:43): Some time today if he's available, Examiner Olbrechts: (26:45): If Ms. Locher: (26:46): Not time tomorrow. Examiner Olbrechts: (26:47): Yeah. I mean, I suspect one of the problems will be if they don't conform to the septic sewer regulations, that maybe that's not something that can be fixed. And maybe that's more of an issue for the sewer district. I don't know. But like I said, I can leave that up to something to be worked out after the fact, so Ms. Locher: (27:05): Sure. Because I'm sure the septic is fine right now, the way it's Examiner Olbrechts: (27:09): Because Ms. Locher: (27:09): Nothing's actually been added and Renton September 10 Chavez (Completed 10/14/24) Transcript by Rev.com Page 13 of 13 Examiner Olbrechts: (27:11): Yeah. Okay. Speaker 1 (27:13): I think maybe we just to work on this electrical to make sure that everything's functioning properly and getting permits for it updated or whatever that takes, because he's paying a $5,000 mortgage on that house. He vacate a $5,000 mortgage and go rent something. He wouldn't have bought the funds to put his daughter in a place and him himself. Ms. Locher: (27:37): And what we may require you to do is have an electrician go out there and do a safety inspection, and I don't know how much that is, but then maybe something that the building official would require. And then if the hearings examiner is in agreement to dismiss the a hundred dollars charge, that could go towards the safety inspection. But don't have one until I talk with the building official, Rob Sheey. Okay. Examiner Olbrechts: (28:10): Okay. Ms. Locher: (28:11): Okay. Examiner Olbrechts: (28:12): Alright. So yeah, I'll write something up and get that out and say about the next couple of weeks. And thanks all for participating. We're adjourned from this hearing. Have a good day.