HomeMy WebLinkAboutC_ Grasspave Fire Road Email RRFA.pdfFrom: Corey W Thomas <CThomas@RentonRFA.org>
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2018 1:24 PM
To: Kyle Carrick; Brandon McNerney
Cc: Matthew Herrera
Subject: RE: Cedar River Apts Grasspave Fire Road
Follow Up Flag: Follow up
Flag Status: Flagged
Kyle,
Please submit a design for review. Any of these systems are considered a variance and need to be
submitted to the fire chief for review. I will not design it for you. As previously stated, they are
reviewed on a case by case basis.
With that said, without any implications towards approval, I suggest the following. The closer you can
come to providing a fully paved, easily identifiable roadway, the better. I would suggest either very
wide curbing, almost like sidewalks (something again that the grass will never be able to overgrow), or
raised curbing, on both sides of the roadway, or fencing, etc. I would suggest something more like
Grasscrete too or permeable pavement if it will hold up to our load ratings.
Corey Thomas, Lead Plans Review Inspector
Renton Regional Fire Authority | Office of the Fire Marshal
1055 S Grady Way Renton, WA 98057
425-430-7024 | 425-430-7722 Fax
cthomas@rentonrfa.org (New Email)
Professionalism . Integrity . Leadership . Accountability . Respect
From: Kyle Carrick [mailto:Kyle.Carrick@kpff.com]
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 12:50
To: Corey W Thomas <CThomas@RentonRFA.org>; Brandon McNerney
<Brandon.McNerney@kpff.com>
Cc: Matthew Herrera <MHerrera@Rentonwa.gov>
Subject: RE: Cedar River Apts Grasspave Fire Road
Corey,
It was a pleasure to meet you yesterday at the pre-app meeting for a new project located 957 Aberdeen
Ave, unrelated to this one.
Thank you for thoughtfully reviewing our requested fire lane material as well as the proposed marking
method. I heard concern about the durability of the markers as well as hiding the structural
components. You are correct in that we are searching for an approach that meets your approval while
minimizing the amount of pavement required (to provide increased green space, reduce the
environmental impacts, and reduce costs).
I have two follow-up proposals, to see if either of these changes would provide the level of service you
are looking for.
1. Does providing a concrete band on both sides running the length of the fire lane provide
sufficient increase in visibility and durability? I’m thinking of something like the first picture
below.
2. If the answer to 1 is no, would another product that doesn’t hide the structural elements, such
as Grasscrete, (shown in the second picture) address that concern. These are modular precast
concrete systems.
Concrete bands:
Grasscrete:
Thanks!
Kyle
Kyle Carrick, PE
Civil Engineering Project Manager
O 206.622.5822 D 206.926.0737 M 302.388.0879
1601 Fifth Avenue, Suite 1600
Seattle, WA 98101
From: Corey W Thomas [mailto:CThomas@RentonRFA.org]
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2018 10:48 AM
To: Brandon McNerney
Cc: Kyle Carrick; Matthew Herrera
Subject: RE: Cedar River Apts Grasspave Fire Road
Brandon,
The Renton Regional Fire Authority is very selective when it comes to alternates to fully paved fire
access roadways. All variances are reviewed on a case by case basis.
After reviewing your proposal, we do not feel we can approve this request for this project. The distance
to which the request extends to if quite lengthy, well over 2,000 feet long. The particular product
chosen does a very good job of hiding the structural elements underneath, which may be may be the
objective, however causes our first responders to hesitate to ever use such a roadway. Fire apparatus is
very costly to replace and to try and negotiate such a roadway at night in the dark especially combined
with inclement weather proves difficult at best. It slows our response tremendously. The proposed
system of marking the roadway does not appear adequate to meet our code and we fear would not hold
up for very long being surrounded by grass encroachment and lawn maintenance equipment. Also the
project involves a building with very high life safety factor with many, many occupants that could be
trapped and/or sleeping at the time of an emergency.
Let me know if you have any further questions.
Corey Thomas, Lead Plans Review Inspector
Renton Regional Fire Authority | Office of the Fire Marshal
1055 S Grady Way Renton, WA 98057
425-430-7024 | 425-430-7722 Fax
cthomas@rentonrfa.org (New Email)
Professionalism . Integrity . Leadership . Accountability . Respect
From: Brandon McNerney [mailto:Brandon.McNerney@kpff.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2018 16:06
To: Corey W Thomas <CThomas@RentonRFA.org>
Cc: Kyle Carrick <Kyle.Carrick@kpff.com>
Subject: RE: Cedar River Apts Grasspave Fire Road
Corey,
We have used a product similar to what is attached here before. The red markers would snap into the
grasspave at regular intervals along the borders of the fire access road.
Thanks,
Brandon McNerney
Civil Design Engineer
O 206.622.5822 D 206.926.0713
From: Corey W Thomas [mailto:CThomas@RentonRFA.org]
Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2018 3:44 PM
To: Brandon McNerney
Cc: Kyle Carrick
Subject: RE: Cedar River Apts Grasspave Fire Road
Brandon,
Always with these products is the issue of how you will distinguish the edges of this reinforced area,
from areas not reinforced, for our fire truck drivers. Do you have a proposal for this?
Corey
From: Brandon McNerney [mailto:Brandon.McNerney@kpff.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2018 15:25
To: Corey W Thomas <CThomas@RentonRFA.org>
Cc: Kyle Carrick <Kyle.Carrick@kpff.com>
Subject: RE: Cedar River Apts Grasspave Fire Road
Corey,
See attached for additional exhibit showing the extents of the grasspave fire access road around the
building.
Thanks for looking into this,
Brandon McNerney
Civil Design Engineer
O 206.622.5822 D 206.926.0713
From: Corey W Thomas [mailto:CThomas@RentonRFA.org]
Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2018 2:44 PM
To: Brandon McNerney
Cc: Kyle Carrick
Subject: RE: Cedar River Apts Grasspave Fire Road
Brandon,
Please provide a site plan clearly showing the extent of the proposed use of this material. Something I
can present to the fire chief for his review, thanks.
Corey Thomas, Lead Plans Review Inspector
Renton Regional Fire Authority | Office of the Fire Marshal
1055 S Grady Way Renton, WA 98057
425-430-7024 | 425-430-7722 Fax
cthomas@rentonrfa.org (New Email)
Professionalism . Integrity . Leadership . Accountability . Respect
From: Brandon McNerney [mailto:Brandon.McNerney@kpff.com]
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2018 13:03
To: Corey W Thomas <CThomas@RentonRFA.org>
Cc: Kyle Carrick <Kyle.Carrick@kpff.com>
Subject: Cedar River Apts Grasspave Fire Road
Hi Corey,
I am hoping you can take a look at the material we intend to use for the fire road on a the west and
south sides of the Cedar River Apartment project. I’ve attached two documents that provide detail on
the loading capabilities and other specifications for the product. The material meets the city’s loading
requirements and will be graded to meet slope requirements as well. Please take a look and let us know
if this will be an acceptable surface material for the road.
Thank you so much,
Brandon McNerney
Civil Design Engineer
O 206.622.5822 D 206.926.0713
1601 Fifth Avenue, Suite 1600
Seattle, WA 98101